View Full Version : Player Collusion
03-27-2005, 04:27 AM
I play Poker on the net for not more than 4 months on tables between $ 1/2 and $ 5/10. It did not happen often that I have had the impression of players colluding. Sometime, f. i. with a four-straight open end on the board, two players raising and reraising (so that I fold my two pairs) and it turns out that both were bluffing ($ 5/10).
My question is: does player collusion take place frequently? If yes, on what levels? I can imagine that sit&go tournaments with 10 players might be dangerous. Are the web sites seriously active in trying to block it (by monitoring if the same players sit frequently on the same table, etc.)?
I am sure, some of you have more experience in that. Could you please provide some information.
03-27-2005, 04:47 AM
I am sure that it happens but I imagine that it would be at the higher levels. I don't believe the site would be monitoring unless someone sent in a complaints. If you feel that it has happened to you, make note of the players, game # and time, then email detail to the site.
03-27-2005, 04:58 AM
Thanks Dad604. Of course, when ever I have my doubts I make some notes, in order to observe if the same players are together at another table. Until now I have not encountered a repetition of suspicious situations. That's why I wonder if it should be considered a problem, or if it is rather the exeption.
03-28-2005, 01:17 AM
Actually, most sites claim to monitor players very closely. They say that they watch for people who play at the same table frequently. In addition, they watch for certain types of (otherwise poor) play that indicate collusion.
I am not sure what they actually do, but I am inclined to believe them. In any one hand, they take a rake whether or not there is collusion, but if players start to doubt the fairness of the game, the sites will lose players and rakes.
If you suspect collusion, I would think it would be best to leave the table. Even if there is no collusion at all, concerns over collusion will only interrupt your concentration. If you are reasonably confident that particular players may be colluding, then report them. As long as you are not making these reports frequently, the site should take you seriously. If you find yourself suspecting collusion frequently, maybe it is time to find a new site, where you can be more comfortable.
From Pokerstars at http://www.pokerstars.com/security.html
"Collusion is a form of cheating in which two or more players signal their holdings or otherwise form a cheating partnership to the detriment of the other players at the same table.
While on one hand it is easier to pass information between colluding players in online poker than it is in brick & mortar rooms, it is much more difficult to avoid eventual detection as the cards for all players can be examined after the play.
No matter how sophisticated the collusion is, it must involve a play of a hand that would not be played that way without collusion. Our detection methods will catch unusual play patterns and warn the security personnel, who will then make a thorough manual investigation. We will also investigate all players' reports about suspected collusion.
If any player is found to be participating in any form of collusion his or her account may be permanently closed.
And from PartyPoker at
"Collusion: Collusion happens between two or more players. It can be defined as a strategy intended to take an undue advantage over the other players at the table. We have developed a "Collusion Prevention System" to detect such players and ban them from the site. The sophisticated systems are developed on a high level technological platform and work based on a combined set of algorithms, permutations and combinations. We have further modified our systems to filter the players who collude and identify them so that appropriate action can be taken against them."
03-28-2005, 01:59 PM
I've been playing online for almost 3 years now and have had very few instances where I thought this may be happening. Most of the sites, i believe, will respond pretty quickly to any complaint just due to the underlying perception (even though it's crazy) that online gaming is somehow rigged.
04-06-2005, 06:48 PM
I have been playing for about a year on internet poker, and I have never really thought I have ever been colluded against. If I did ever think it was happening to me, I would most likely write down the players names and send a complaint to someone.
04-07-2005, 12:41 AM
I havent ran into anything like that, at least not that I've noticed altho it could be more subtle, like people just telling each other their cards to help with thier odds
04-07-2005, 11:09 AM
Cheating usually happens at higher limits. Some times what looks suspicious, such as two players getting into a raising war and pushing you off your hand, is just a case of two maniacs butting heads.
From my experience at limits under $10/$20 you will occasionally run into players who don't understand hand values and position but will make money some times because they play so aggressive. You might have AK and flop and ace and they will raise you every time with A4 trying to win the pot. With players like this, you usually have to call them down. It gets difficult though if you are stuck in between two maniacs.
There is also some other times where if you aren't watching the betting closely (because you are playing several tables at once), you may see something that looks suspicious like two players get in a raising war that pushes a third player out. Then on the river, one player folds to a single bet. You may wonder, how can they be putting in all those raises and then fold on the end for one bet with a huge pot. It could be a case of one player having a big draw that didn't come in (open ended strait flush), or another playing having two pair trying to make a full house with a four flush on board. Some times you have the best hand all the way to the river and then the worst possible card comes out that counterfiets your hands and you just know you are beat. In limit, you may occasionally want to call a single bet on the end just in case a person was trying to bluff you but most of the time, when you know you are beat, you usually are so it is wise to save a bet. In the long run, a bet saved is just as god as a bet won.
04-21-2005, 07:07 PM
I was in a forum qualifier tourney on Poker Stars where two guys were colluding so blatantly that all the observers were screaming for blood. It turned out they had done this before. As a result, though they won two of the five qualifying spots, they had them taken away, and the guys who came in 6th and 7th were awarded them. They were also kicked out of the forum and banned from Poker Stars.
04-22-2005, 12:00 AM
Just play 10 person or greater tables and change tables regularly. That'll lower the risk.
04-22-2005, 02:18 AM
i agree about this
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